Alright, I’m struggling as a dad. I have some big questions. So I thought I’d just throw out what I’m thinking and get some discussion going. Hopefully, we can come up with an answer together.
I understand that my job is to discipline my children. I am to train them up so they can be productive parts of God’s kingdom and man’s society. Part of that means using the rod. At the same time, I’ve learned that the mere threat of the rod doesn’t necessarily produce great behavior in my children. In some cases, it simply helps them get really good at being secretive and avoiding detection.
There have been some times where something has happened, we have no idea which child did it. We threaten and cajole and don’t get any closer. I know some suggest simply punishing them all, but I keep going back to treating others the way I want to be treated. I don’t want to be punished for something I didn’t do just because the one who did it won’t fess up. On some occasions, we finally got to a point of saying, “Look, somebody here has lied. We know what lying can do to your heart. We know the guilt and shame it can produce and we don’t want you to live with that for the rest of your life. When whoever the guilty party is has had enough of the guilt and shame, come talk to us. We won’t punish you, we just want to help you overcome this sin.”
In most cases, the guilty party eventually comes clean with us in a private setting. We have a good talk. I think the child was helped.
For a time, I wondered, “Hmm, does punishment not really work? Is that hindering my kids from being honest with me? Should I remove the threat of punishment?” But I can’t square that with the Bible. Obviously the Bible talks about parents disciplining and punishing their children.
Then I got to thinking about how God deals with me. I saw four things and I’m trying to figure out how to bring them into my parenting with consistency and wondering if I’m even on the right track. Here is what I saw.
- When I’m caught in impenitent rebellion and dishonesty, God punishes.
- When I come to God to penitently confess my sins, God forgives and shows mercy. He doesn’t punish.
- Whether I’m in impenitent rebellion or penitently confessing, God lets me face the natural consequences of my action.
- When I penitently confess my sins, God teaches and provides boundaries to overcome the sin in the future, pruning and disciplining me.
So, here are my questions for you.
- Are the above four points accurate? Is that how God really deals with us?
- If they are accurate, how do we implement the same strategy in our parenting?
- When should we punish? When should we show mercy?
In other words, if my child confesses before getting caught, is there never any punishment? How do you distinguish between punishment, discipline, and natural consequences? You tell me.
Thanks ahead of time for letting me know what you think.
And remember, God’s way really does work for our families.
Edwin
Hey Edwin,
Good post – your subject matter and comments reminded me of a lesson you presented at the Franklin Church of Christ. It was a second Sunday night of the month question and answer lesson , "Love or Fear Him?" Your simple answer was "YES."
I think the same is true of the relationship between children and their parents – love or fear them? YES! There is a long-term goal for today's discipline, and that is to do all that we can to help our children avoid the ultimate discipline, which will be eternal.
Keep up the good work.
Mark Joseph
Hey Mark,
Good to hear from you. Thanks for chiming in. We do need to keep the goal in mind in our parenting.
Hi Edwin!
I share some of your uncertainty. I've wrestled with this before, coming to no perfect understanding. Of course, we can only somewhat emulate God as a father. He gets it right every time… We can't. I think your points are valid, but consider also that God does not deliver "the rod" immediately. Whereas, I've always felt compelled to do so as swiftly as practical. Personally, I try to reserve the rod for rebellion. I didn't always recognize the value in that. Heb 12:1-11 acknowledges that "human fathers" chasten as seems best to them, but God does it altogether for our profit. This says to me that God is the model father, even though He doesn't explicitly condemn human fathers for their sometimes selfish delivery. He just acknowledges that we do it for our benefit, rather than the child's, sometimes. I try to take that to heart. Now, what does the chastening of the Lord look like? I'm not sure I know. I know He trains and instructs through His word… This text almost seems to suggest that He chastens providentially, through trials. I still don't know how to identify trials in my life as chastening though, vs all the other reasons we might be tested. It even seems in this text that God only chastens His people, which might explain why we see the wicked prosper today.
So, I probably haven't helped you come any closer to a conclusion… Sorry for that! But, we're trying, right? That means our hearts are intent on presenting Him with "godly offspring", (Mal 2:15). I think one important principle with broader application can be used here too: Judge with righteous judgment! John 7:24. If we can apply that principle to our parenting, I think it will help us get it right more often than not, and perhaps our Great God and Father might show us mercy, or chastening when needed.
While I am not a parent, I have worked in childcare. One of the things that I was taught regarding discipline is that the most effective discipline is *not* calling out those who are doing something wrong, but to acknowledge those who are doing something right.
The reason this seems to work is because one of the things children want most of all is to know that they are loved. Part of knowing they are loved is getting attention, even if it's negative. By consistently recognizing good behavior and ignoring bad behavior (understanding that there are some things that cannot be ignored and must be addressed, like one child hitting another), we subconsciously tell a child that the way to get attention (and therefore to feel loved) is to do the right thing. I have been able to turn whole groups of children in a line from rowdy to quiet by calling out those who are quiet into a new line and ignoring the loud ones until they are quiet. I got to the point with one group of children where many times, I only had to call three or four children into a new line before the rest of the line was doing what it was supposed to do. I've also have absolute "terrors" not give me any trouble by consistently focusing on what they were doing right and encouraging that.
As far as punishing all the children for the sin of one, I look at that kind of like some of the churches of Asia in Revelation. Christ threatened to remove the candlestick of entire churches if they failed to discipline themselves and continued to tolerate the sins of a few.
Reading back what I just wrote, I do want to clarify that I do believe there are many times when you can't ignore what is being done wrong and you *have* to take corrective action. However, I do think that some parents–and many churches–lose their children and members because they fail to provide sufficient positive feedback to encourage them to continue being faithful.
Sean and Carl, thanks for your responses.
Sean, you are exactly right. Sometimes, I don't measure up to God in my discipline. I do it for my benefit and not for the child's. Thanks for that great reminder.
Carl, I appreciate that. I struggle with application though. I hear great stories like the ones you've presented, but I don't seem to pull off such great results with it. Perhaps I'm doing it wrong. I think I have too much of a tendency to focus on the negative, even when I'm trying to accentuate the positive. This gives me something to work on.
"For a time, I wondered, 'Hmm, does punishment not really work? Is that hindering my kids from being honest with me? Should I remove the threat of punishment?' But I can’t square that with the Bible. Obviously the Bible talks about parents disciplining and punishing their children."
If you can't squate what the Bible says with empirical experience, then perhaps you should rethink your view of the Bible as the inerrant, revealed word of God.
Thanks for chiming in, Bill.
On the one hand, if I find real contradiction between the Bible and empirical experience, then maybe I should rethink my view. In fact, I do rethink it from time to time.
However, as is most often the case, nothing is quite so simple as that. Since my experiences are understood through my own filters, experience is not always the best standard for what I decide to rethink. In fact, there are other options than simply rethinking whether or not the Bible is the inerrant, revealed word of God. I can think of two.
1) Perhaps I need to rethink my understanding of the Bible.
2) Perhaps I need to rethink the interpretation of my experiences.
That is what this post is all about. I have had one understanding about what the Bible said regarding punishment. Now I'm suggesting my understanding has been flawed and was seeking discussion to help understand the Bible better or understand my experiences better.